Speaking of Phenomenal Podcast

Clear Your Space and Create a Delicious Life with Kishori Koch

• Amy Boyle / Kishori Koch • Season 3 • Episode 12

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Kishori Koch discusses the art of space clearing, highlighting how our physical surroundings can influence our inner peace. She shares practical tips for organizing spaces to create clarity and beauty, and emphasizes the connection between self-care and community well-being. The conversation also explores the power of a smile, the role of a death doula, and the importance of normalizing discussions about death. Kishori's insights encourage listeners to embrace life's non-linear journey with curiosity and authenticity, making this episode a must-listen for those seeking holistic well-being.
MUSIC (used with permission)  WOMAN Performed by Tiffany Villarreal Instagram Written by Greg Buddy Bangs Reed Jr, Michael Big Mike Hart Jr, Taura Stinson, Tiffany Villarreal - pod artwork by Caffeination Design

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Amy Boyle (amyboylephoto) (00:00.078)
Welcome to the Speaking of Phenomenal podcast where we explore the extraordinary stories and insights of women who are redefining what it means to be phenomenal. I'm your host, Amy Boyle. And today we're in conversation with Kishori Cook, a woman who blends the art of mindfulness, beauty of simplicity, and the power of holistic living. Join us as we uncover how Kishori transformed chaotic spaces into peaceful havens and shares her journey of embracing life's challenges with grace and clarity.

This is the Speaking of Phenomenal podcast.

Amy Boyle (amyboylephoto) (00:35.746)
Welcome to the Speaking of Phenomenal podcast. Kishore, I'm so glad you're here. I'm so glad to be here, Amy. Thank you for inviting me. Well, we have so much to talk about today, but I'd love it if you give our audience an introduction to the Phenomenal You.

The phenomenal me, I really thrive and I'm phenomenal at finding clarity in the chaos. So whether that's like chaotic space or chaotic conversation, I really love clearing space and making space. And in doing that, I'm really driven by beauty and deliciousness. Those are my kind of my pillars that guide me as I go and clear space.

What led you to this path of space clearing and for personally, and I think also professionally, right, for others? Yeah, yeah. It's actually, it's been something that I just discovered professionally in the last couple of years, but it's something I've been doing my entire life. Like I've always helped people clear their spaces, organize their closets, organize their rooms. I was constantly reorganizing my own room growing up.

like, you know, changing the furniture around and trying to make it feel more cozy or more flow, be more flow. And, but I never thought of it as a, like a profession. I didn't even know it was something you could do professionally until recently in the last couple of years as I was exploring new possibilities on my, a new iteration of me.

and discovered that it actually is something that people really need help with. And it's something that I'm really good at. And I love being able to help people who, especially those, their situations, these chaotic or cluttered experiences for people make them feel very anxious. And I walk in and I'm excited like, Ooh, how can we, how can we reset this and make it feel really good? What are some of the steps that when you first look at a space,

Amy Boyle (amyboylephoto) (02:45.794)
that you take in for figuring out what's going to be the best for either yourself. Like you said, you did this a lot when you were little and going forward, but for others, like, is there a lot of intake to figure that out or what are you looking for?

That's a great question. And it's actually, it's very different with each person and with each setting. It that I don't have sort of like a set intake form or anything like that. It's more about the first thing is for me to go into the space and a lot of a lot of the knowing comes intuitively for me. And the most important thing for me is to connect with the person I'm first and then

that kind of clearing and organizing comes later. So I try to set the space, hold space for them to be able to maybe tell me about how they move in the space, what's frustrating them about it, what their dream would be, how they'd love to see it, how they wanna feel in the space, because that's a lot of it is how creating a space where people can feel the words that come up are often people.

don't want to feel as stressed, don't want to feel as anxious, they want to feel calm, they want to feel like they can breathe. So these are things, it's having a conversation with the person first and really understanding what they're craving and how they want to live in that space.

And then as far as your background and mindfulness and yoga and even art history, I would think they all interrelate really nicely once you figure out how to put that together to help others. Yes, exactly. It's all connected because when your surrounding space feels like there's flow, feels like it's open, feels like it's clear.

Amy Boyle (amyboylephoto) (04:48.078)
your inner space is automatically calmer. People I work with, one of the first things they'll say is, my gosh, this feels so much better. I feel so much better. I feel like more relaxed. I feel calmer. And so there's this deep connection, whether we realize it or not, whether we're conscious of it or not, to our surrounding space and our inner space. And so it's, yes, it is streamlined with mindfulness, that being

present and really tuning into how you're feeling in a space and then you know living holistically is really about

thinking about all of the things we do in our everyday life, how we take in information, the conversations that we have, what we eat, how we move. And so our space is obviously, we're moving, we're thinking, we're eating, we're dreaming in our space. So it's part of the flow of holistic wellbeing to have your space organized in a way that feels good to you.

Any particular teaching or part of the certification processes you've been through for multiple different things? Is there any one area or lesson, if you will, that has transformed who you are today? Wow. That's a really good question. And the first thing that comes to mind is

we're constantly transforming. And so there have been many of those moments, I think, in my life as at this point of my life, I really feel like life is this constant transformation. And it's this part for me, it's been this process of healing and shedding and finding clarity about who I am and what I want and what I can bring to the world to help support other people and

Amy Boyle (amyboylephoto) (06:48.782)
So there's so many teachings. I mean, I started my whole conscious stepping into this space of holistic wellness was through meditation when it was about, it was over 20 years ago now and I couldn't sleep. And so someone said, why don't you try meditation to fall asleep? And so that's how I started. And then I got more curious about it and started meditating.

while I was awake. And then that took me into yoga and the path of yoga and all the sacred teachings and the practical teachings. And then that took me into exploring life and death and death as a part of life and how can we honor that part of our life and not be afraid of it. And that took me into death doula certification.

So in my own process, I guess, of healing and shedding layers, there have been these different points that have, back to your question, been key points or key teachings along the way, depending on whether it was yoga or meditation or mindfulness or death. And in all in this idea, I think for where I am right now, it feels like, okay, there's so much

sadness and stress and tension in the world. And that's part of life. That's part of this, we're all cohabitating on this planet. So how can I maybe be a part of the solution? How can I be part of lifting up the vibration, lifting up people's spirit, helping maybe move with more ease through all of this chaos and challenges on earth?

Couldn't agree more about the way life feels more stressful. And I think it's the immediacy of everything. We can't escape certain things if you open your phone or your computer, they're just constantly bombarded with messages. So when someone is seeking inner ease or peace, what is something that is a practical tip that you could share with our listeners to help just

Amy Boyle (amyboylephoto) (09:12.768)
center and bring back. It's certainly not going to be anything new, nothing that you've never heard before. Just pause, just pause and tune into your breath and start slowing your breath down in and out and bring all of your focus to that. Breathing in and breathing out, you're just alive so you're welcoming the breath in and welcoming the breath out. It doesn't have to be fancy, you don't have to be sitting in a certain position or being in a certain place right where you are.

So that's the first thing I often do is just like, okay, in all the chaos, where's my breath? How was my breath? Can I slow it down? And then there's all sorts of science behind that, but that's the quick tip. It's just so hard at times to just even acknowledge that dire need for that pause. And it's like, but I'm going to lose time if I pause, right?

I'm going to be late if I pause or my project's not going to be turned in on time if I pause, but what we turn in if we don't pause or what we might not turn in at all if we don't pause could be very minor or it could just be catastrophic, right? It's one of those crazy things. I know that you prefaced it with it's nothing new, but the fact that we still don't do it regularly and we need to be reminded is a really important thing.

It's funny because oftentimes it's actually very simple. It's a simple practice. I mean, if you're alive, you're breathing and it's a really powerful tool to work with your breath in many different ways to calm your nervous system, to slow your heart rate, to be present. So it's really simple and it's always accessible, but it's not easy. That's the trick.

It's not always easy to remember that really you only need a couple of minutes and it's going to help move forward in a more productive way with whatever you're doing. You've said deliciousness a couple of different times now, and I want to jump in with that. How can our listeners create a more delicious life? What does that look like to you? I guess I should talk about what it looks like.

Amy Boyle (amyboylephoto) (11:31.992)
for me because it's different for everybody. And for me, it's been part of this journey of like being human and understanding what it means to be human and how can we enjoy it more, especially in times of challenge or struggle. And for me, what has helped me feel grounded

and connected to life has been thinking about how do I feed all of my senses. sight, taste, smell, sound, all of the senses. It's been the path of beauty and deliciousness is what has helped me. I love food. I love to cook. I love to

Make yummy food. love to eat yummy food. So that's feeding my senses of the smell, even the sight and taste. I love beauty in the form of nature. A lot of times, if I'm having one of those moments of, my God, there's all this chaos. What do I next? Where do I go? Then my pause will be walk out the front door and get myself out in nature and just admire, know, cultivate some of that.

that awe and wonder that nature brings. And that's another form of beauty. And it's delicious in a sense, like delicious doesn't always need to be a flavor. It can be something you're hearing or seeing. A delicious sound can be the sound of summer rain. So it's that cooling rain on a hot summer night, or least summer in the Northern Hemisphere. So beauty beyond like cosmetic beauty and deliciousness beyond flavor. Like how can we...

I've expanded those words because they mean like it can be a beautiful smell, it can be a delicious sound, can be delicious feeling sensation. I like using different adjectives. Adjectives that we normally assign with certain things like deliciousness, you think of food, but it is now when you think about visual deliciousness, it is literally a feast for our eyes. Maybe it's a tapestry, it's a texture.

Amy Boyle (amyboylephoto) (13:57.272)
quality of the paint on a canvas and that also rich, delicious, enveloping all these neat things that again, requires us to pause to take it all in because it's a moment. We see certain things at first glance, but then on, really taking it in, we're seeing more and more. We might be hearing more. We might be tasting more, right? If we just eat really quickly because we're hungry, we're not.

taking in all that deliciousness, all that extra. Exactly. Well, and another thing kind of leads from that is, so you spent more than a few years in Italy. I would think that this would form who you are and why these things are part of your core pillars and everything else. What was that experience life you would like and you were just recently back for a while?

What is it like to go back to a place that really formed you at a younger point in your life? Yeah, that definitely was pivotal for me and unexpected.

I feel like I was really, really lucky to be immersed in a place that is sort of the, it's the epitome of beauty and deliciousness. I mean, there's beauty and deliciousness everywhere you go in the history, the architecture, the food, the culture, the language, the fashion, the art. I mean, it is just, you're fully immersed in it. And so I think

Yes, to your point, that is probably where I really discovered that beauty and deliciousness are just my happy place. These pillars that really help guide my life. went originally to work in the arts. I was an art history major and I was

Amy Boyle (amyboylephoto) (16:09.774)
I received an internship at the Guggenheim in Venice. And so my big plan was to go do that. And then I was going to move to New York City and be in the arts and work in art education and help people connect through beauty, through art. And then life had some different plans for me. And I ended up staying in Italy for 17 years doing a lot of different things. Yes, a big, big, big part of my life.

And now I'm exporting beauty and deliciousness back in the States. I would think that just having those experiences, I look at the world differently after being inspired by a different location, just changing up the routine, seeing things through a different lens from the people who live in a different city, region, and then bringing that back. So that's a lovely tie in.

I'd like to talk more about the interconnectedness of people. That's something that seems to really resonate with you and as a world traveler. Or what have you realized about our interconnectedness? We're a lot more similar than we are different. When we can be curious about that, we can learn a lot. So I find it interesting.

you might look at someone and feel like, my gosh, they're really different for whatever reason, different cultures, different languages. And then you get to talking and you start finding similarities or you get curious about what feels really different. And inevitably that conversation around what is difference can often lead you to a similar thread. I would say if you really want to get down to the core of it as humans, we're all, we are these human beings living

a life and really people want to feel happy, feel like they're part of a community and that's part of that feeling part of community is actually one of the tenants to feeling happy. There's even science around that. So we want to feel joy, we want to feel gratitude, we want to feel awe, we want to connectedness. And in a way it sounds, I feel like it maybe sounds a little bit cliched, but it is so true because in the end,

Amy Boyle (amyboylephoto) (18:30.616)
We're all just trying to do our best. We really are. And we are, I really believe that we all are doing our best with the knowledge that we have. And I think it's also interesting to think about, there's so much of this wanting to, know, point, look outwards and look at the problems that are outwards, like problems in the community and people are the problem. We can't change other people and we can't change situations, but we can change ourselves.

So if you take a little time to focus on ourselves and how can we do our own healing, doing our own, know, however you want to say, be a better person or be the best that you can be, there's a lot of different ways to say that. If we all have the space and time to do a little bit of that and turning inwards, if we were all doing that as humans, then we're automatically going to be healing the collective. So it's like that, that...

concept of self care really is community care because we're taking care of ourselves to heal ourselves so that we can help the community so we can show up in a more embodied and full human way for others and the community. And when it comes to that, I know it goes back to like how challenging the simple pause is, but even more challenging, just like even in this podcast and the photo project that came before it.

asking people to recognize the phenomenal in them. It's kind of goes to the idea of, well, that's really a question about self -love and how can we nurture that? In your experience, what's a good tip? Where's a good place to begin? feel like to your point, if we are taking that time to go inward, then externally, the ripple effect will continue.

but that is such a block for so many. at certain points of day, week, month, could be myself included. Like where can we begin? I feel like the first thing is to realize that we are all perfectly imperfect humans. is that perfectionism can get in the way. And oftentimes the biggest obstacle in our lives is ourselves. get.

Amy Boyle (amyboylephoto) (20:51.082)
in our own way. So how can we get out of our own way? A very specific example. There's many examples because it depends where you're at in your life, right? What's going on. And it's very complicated and complex being human. there isn't one simple solution. But I will say, I mean, the first thing would be to listen. You know, our body holds a lot of wisdom and it's constantly like knocking on the door saying, hey, help, need, you know, pay some attention to me over here. It comes back to some of the basics is

Well, there are the basics of have you had enough water today? Have you moved your body? These are physical things that our human body needs. We need movement and we need hydration to function. And then another thing is literally getting my feet on the ground out in nature, ideally bare foot, but if not, that's okay. Feeling that grounding power of Mother Earth supporting you.

we can get really focused on ourselves and this sort of individualism, this view of, you know, so focused on ourselves that we're forgetting that it's not just about us. There's the community, right? There's the interconnectedness. And so sometimes it can be really helpful to think then about, what can I do to help someone else? What can I do to support someone else?

And that doesn't need to be huge. doesn't need to be like, I'm going to go out and volunteer 20 hours a week at the shelter, or I'm going to donate a million dollars. It can be as simple as reaching out to a friend or to someone you know is maybe having a tough time. Give them a call, send them a message. Just thinking about someone else and a different cause, getting you out of your own head and your own world can also foster this sense of I'm helping someone else and I'm part of a community.

find that when things get blurry, if you will, and that's a, no photographer wants the world to be blurry. That's a bad thing. So when it does get like that, I realized that I am in my own way. And I say this to my sons and my, let's get out of our own way. And to your point exactly, that idea of checking in on somebody, doing something for somebody else, it just snaps you back.

Amy Boyle (amyboylephoto) (23:17.346)
into, okay, I got this, this feels good. There's a different kind of exchange going on. And we can feel that forward progress, if you will, but also just that goodness that comes out of it. don't think everything has to be on exchange, right? It's not transactional. should just, it's part of the flow is what I think I'm hearing in

the responses and the answers that you're giving me today. It's like, how can we be in a better state of flow so we can be our best selves?

Very well said. Thank you. As you were speaking about that example of getting out of your own way, for some reason this image and this memory came to mind of one of the practices. I can't remember who the teacher was, but it was this experiment you were meant to go out and when you're out on a walk or at the grocery store, anywhere you go, just smile at people. Smile. Make that your default.

it can be really, really interesting. Number one, it's contagious. You should try it. It's really fun. And maybe you have already tried this exercise, but like literally someone will look at you and oftentimes, know, people are in their own world. don't even realize what's on their face, what kind of mask is on their face. And then if you smile, automatic, well, sometimes people will be really surprised. Just be like shocked. my God, this person is smiling at me. And then,

But oftentimes you'll be it'll match it with a smile and everything changes. You can feel it like you feel the flow and the connection and you don't even have to say anything. I mean, you can, but just that smiling is contagious. it's literally like everything lifts up and feels easier. love that very much. Hopefully everyone listening to this episode will go out. if there's one thing you can do today, it's free. Right. They've said that for years. Smiles are free. And

Amy Boyle (amyboylephoto) (25:21.278)
they sure feel good to receive too. So be a part of that exchange and see how rich our lives can be. well said. I want to tap into a little bit on the certification for being a death doula and that space early on in season one, I had Suzanne O 'Brien on and she's a death doula and trains people on end of life.

What has that experience been like for you? My dad used to say, pray for a happy death. That was like his, that was his thing. And that I can still hear to this day. So what does that all mean to you? I got, I got really curious about it because in general, I'm generalizing of course, but in the United States, it's almost taboo to die. And the thing is no one gets out alive. And

We have this fear of death and dying. We have this fear of aging, but it's a natural process of being human, of being alive. And so I just got really curious about that and then started seeing how culturally different cultures actually will honor that part. They'll honor the elder community. They'll honor the wisdom of someone who's older.

And so I was just getting curious about what is the deal? What are we afraid of? And so I just started reading about it and learning about it. And actually now remembering it also in grad school, I had a class that was specifically about death and dying. And so we had some deep conversations and readings and learning about that whole world.

you know, end of life. And some people call it death work. And I just realized somebody, it's just, there's, there's fear. I've found that one thing I can do is just start having the conversation with people because it slowly gets softer. It's like, we can just ignore it and push it away, but it's always going to be there and it's just going to keep popping its head up. So let's talk about it. Maybe make friends with it.

Amy Boyle (amyboylephoto) (27:37.922)
you know, and then it's easier to hang out because we're friends now. It's been an honor for me to be able to support people as they're going through the grieving process of losing a loved one. And that has been before, during, and after the process. And so it's another way of being of service to people. We need people to lean on.

It takes a village, it takes a community. so that's kind of been my path into that world. How can we make it normalize it? Because it is normal. It's like, it's just, it's going to happen. So how can we make it more comfortable for people to talk about it and be in it? I like the fact that you said, greet it like a friend, because to that end, it's beyond our physical selves. goes into that ripple effect.

I think where I'm at right now, what I've found is that when we make room in our surrounding spaces, we automatically clear some of our inner spaces and that brings a sense of ease. there's, when our space is clear, it's open and there's room to breathe for the breath to move. And all of a sudden, like we feel lighter and we feel like we can move with more ease and expansiveness.

So it's like there's this tidy environment around us. It's not just orderly. It's also liberating our mind from stress and overwhelm. And so then we can move forward with more focus and clarity. And then that connects into, when we're going into those inner spaces, okay, now we can look at, so we've gone from organizing the outer space. So how do we organize our inner space? Well, there's all of these

mindfulness exercises or mindfulness practices, which for me includes breath work, includes mindful walking, mindful eating, yoga, meditation, and it just depends on what you need in the day and in the moment. Like sometimes, yes, I practice yoga every day, but it might be five minutes one day, depending on what I need. being able to

Amy Boyle (amyboylephoto) (29:59.95)
clear that space so you can listen to what your body needs and what you're craving to settle that inner space as well. I'm so glad that you do all the things you do and I wish more people and hopefully the premise of this podcast, think the sub to egg should be life is not linear because I say that all the time as well. I've shown

A grad student sat on a timeline when I had to write about my personal brand and my timeline. You think it's this year, this year, this year, this year with a little marker along the way. heck no. It's this curly cube spaghetti that goes this way. I think more people need to embrace that, accept that as part of the awesome journey that we get the privilege of having. So I'm all for promoting nonlinear timelines.

As far as our audience finding more about you reaching out to you, what's the best way for them to do that?

you can find me on through my website. There's a contact page at holistic life studio .org. And there's also a link to my Instagram page. You could go through there and contact me there or LinkedIn. I'm on LinkedIn too. I'll be sure that all of those are linked in the show notes and thank you for sharing your delicious view of life and living with us today. It's been wonderful.

Thank you so much, AB. It's been a real pleasure.

Amy Boyle (amyboylephoto) (31:32.098)
Thank you for joining us on this episode of Speaking of Phenomenal. Be sure to subscribe, rate, review, and even share the podcast, as well as stay tuned for more inspiring conversations. Remember, each and every one of you is capable of extraordinary things. Until next time, take care and remember, you are phenomenal.


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